Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

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Edge100x
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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by Edge100x » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:57 pm

We're going to continue to monitor and raise each level's limit if we can. The goal is to make sure that servers won't suffer from FPS dips -- they need to use less than one full CPU core when full to prevent that. So, if it turns out that 64 slot servers don't use as much CPU as we thought when run at 40-tick, we may be able to raise the tick limit. The same is true at other levels (we estimate that the highest acceleration level for each server size will use close to 100% CPU).

The numbers we have right now are from what dedicated server customers have seen as they have experimented with the different values. Several customers found that full 64-slot servers running various maps could only handle a tickrate of 40 without stumbling, even on E3-1271v3 machines. I did see one 64-slot server running at a tickrate of 60 and hitting 95% CPU, but it was only running one map, and it was the only server on its machine (which eliminated cache contention concerns and allowed its core to run at the full turbo speed).

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by ripper » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:53 pm

kraze wrote:There are limits in place for which servers can run a higher tickrate. Currently servers over 48 slots will be limited to a maximum of 40 ticks. Some smaller servers can go as high as 144. Managed VDS and dedicated server customers are welcome to override our limits, but really shouldn't as it will produce a poor playing environment.
what about us running a 48 player server...what's the rate we can run at 60?

why does it say only a 40hz rate to order(we run a 48 player server)?

The battlelog settings only allow you to show up if your running a 30,60,120,144 hz server!!

so if we run a 40hz per your suggestions our server will never show up in battlelog??!!

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by kraze » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:03 pm

ripper wrote:
kraze wrote:There are limits in place for which servers can run a higher tickrate. Currently servers over 48 slots will be limited to a maximum of 40 ticks. Some smaller servers can go as high as 144. Managed VDS and dedicated server customers are welcome to override our limits, but really shouldn't as it will produce a poor playing environment.
what about us running a 48 player server...what's the rate we can run at 60?

why does it say only a 40hz rate to order(we run a 48 player server)?

The battlelog settings only allow you to show up if your running a 30,60,120,144 hz server!!

so if we run a 40hz per your suggestions our server will never show up in battlelog??!!
You actually quoted the limit. 48 slot servers and up will be limited to a maximum of 40(at least for now). As for the Battlelog issue. I was under the impression the server showed up properly, but the tickrate it is running was incorrect. This is just a bug that I'm sure can be fixed within Battlelog itself by the developers.
@Kraze^NFo> Juski has a very valid point
@Juski> Got my new signature, thanks!
@Kraze^NFo> Out of context!
@Juski> Doesn't matter!
@Juski> You said I had a valid point! You can't take it back now! It's out there!

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by Edge100x » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:02 pm

Battlelog lists all the servers regardless of tickrate, but the filter page gives specific options for 60/120/144, which can be confusing to clients and not very inclusive. I have communicated my recommendation that they change them.

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by onemoar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:07 pm

no idea why nfo is having issues with 64@60hz
we ran tests on less hardware with less bandwidth and performance wasn't a issue

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by kraze » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:33 pm

A full 64 slot BF4 server at the default tick is going to use anywhere from 50-70% of a core on an E3-12701V3 depending on the map and what's going on in-game. I would not expect a full 64 slot BF4 server at 60Hz to perform without issue on lesser hardware.
@Kraze^NFo> Juski has a very valid point
@Juski> Got my new signature, thanks!
@Kraze^NFo> Out of context!
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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by Edge100x » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:49 pm

onemoar, I went into some detail earlier in the thread. We have more data than you individual customers on this, which allows us to draw more accurate conclusions.

To summarize, some 64/70 slot servers run at 60hz just fine, but most don't. It depends on the server load (if it's the only server on the machine, for instance, it less of a problem than iffthere are two servers) and the maps chosen to run (some maps use almost an entire CPU core even at the default tickrate; others use less). We care deeply about performance here and we don't want to sell servers at a tickrate unless they can reliably perform well at that tickrate; we've chosen initial defaults that we know we can support, and we'll go from there, raising the caps higher if we can.

Customers with dedicated machines have unfettered access to choose any desired tickrate, so those customers can continue to experiment with larger values.

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by onemoar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:28 pm

Edge100x wrote:onemoar, I went into some detail earlier in the thread. We have more data than you individual customers on this, which allows us to draw more accurate conclusions.

To summarize, some 64/70 slot servers run at 60hz just fine, but most don't. It depends on the server load (if it's the only server on the machine, for instance, it less of a problem than iffthere are two servers) and the maps chosen to run (some maps use almost an entire CPU core even at the default tickrate; others use less). We care deeply about performance here and we don't want to sell servers at a tickrate unless they can reliably perform well at that tickrate; we've chosen initial defaults that we know we can support, and we'll go from there, raising the caps higher if we can.

Customers with dedicated machines have unfettered access to choose any desired tickrate, so those customers can continue to experiment with larger values.
I know we ran 64 @ 80hz in cte for several weeks without a issue (irc this was on a e3-1231)
and yes I realise that high-tick rates are simply not going to fly on (Most) vms xor instances we knew that much in cte it just will not work the engines internal `scheduling` is very tight enough where merely having it in a vm with no other processes taxing the cpu will cause weirdness
its like running a quake 3 server @ 125 snaps if everything isn't perfect it all goes to shit even stupid shit like having extra logging enabled or running nannymin plugins will cause a significant impact
frankly frostbite is garbage =/

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by Edge100x » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:36 pm

We run all of our standalone servers on bare hardware. All testing over the last few weeks was also done on bare hardware.

I thought it would do better, too, so I was surprised.

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by onemoar » Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:46 pm

Edge100x wrote:We run all of our standalone servers on bare hardware. All testing over the last few weeks was also done on bare hardware.

I thought it would do better, too, so I was surprised.
then PM David on reddit and give him some details
process dump would help maby could be a thread stuck in a loop eating a bunch of cpu or something silly

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by chray00 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:30 pm

Hey, i was looking into renting a higher tickrate server, but I cannot help but feel that there may be a small detail that has been overlooked when setting up the limits... Considering that "standard" server slot numbers for Battlefield 4 has always been 24, 32, 48, and 64, wouldn't it make more sense to push the max playercount for each tickrate value by one more (24 slot max for 144hz instead of 23, 32 slots max for 90hz instead of 31, etc...). I was ready to throw my money at you for a 32 slots server, but the fact that I either have to drop to 31 slots, or almost halve the tick rate, is kind of a turn off, and I wouldn't be surprised if other potential customers feel the same way as well. I'm very well aware that extensive tests have been made throughout the past few months that lead you to make this decision, but as I said, I can't help but wonder if that's just a small oversight from your part. Unless one more slot for each value of tickrate setting truly is going over the line, in that case that's perfectly fine too. Just curious.

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by Edge100x » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:02 pm

We are not planning to immediately adjust these options further. The initial values were deliberately chosen and we will be monitoring to see how well they work, as I said.

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by Rogue Warrior » Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:01 pm

We found that running our server at 60hz, players are noticing the server is preforming in the warning/Severe zones

Image

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by onemoar » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:23 pm

Rogue Warrior wrote:We found that running our server at 60hz, players are noticing the server is preforming in the warning/Severe zones

Image
post the clients netgraph
if servertick(ms) is >16 the server is starving for cpu time and or i/o

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Re: Tick Rate Setting/Pricing

Post by onemoar » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:26 pm

onemoar wrote:
Rogue Warrior wrote:We found that running our server at 60hz, players are noticing the server is preforming in the warning/Severe zones

Image
post the clients netgraph
if servertick(ms) is >16 the server is starving for cpu time and or i/o
seeing the same thing on cmw's servers isn't enough power to go around

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