I asked on IRC\nfo and one admin said they've never heard of this and didn't know for sure.
Here's the web site. There's coding that needs to be put on server side. Is this do-able or would it cause server problems at NFO?
ssServer and ssClient
-
MrXtramean
- A semi-regular
- Posts: 19
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC40BgXanDqOYoVCYFDSTfHA
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:52 pm
-
MrXtramean
- A semi-regular
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:52 pm
opps...forgot link... http://www.ufonurkka.mine.nu/forum/index.php?c=9
ssServer looks like an interesting way of configuring, running, and handling output from a game server. But,
* We already have systems in place for most of the server functions, and we don't need the others
* It would take an investment in time to learn and integrate (and we have a lot of other important things to do)
* We'd be dependent on a another 3rd-party utility to run our servers
* I don't see a major way it would increase the our client's experience/ease of use
* It does not appear that the anti-cheat capabilities are being kept up to date
* We already have systems in place for most of the server functions, and we don't need the others
* It would take an investment in time to learn and integrate (and we have a lot of other important things to do)
* We'd be dependent on a another 3rd-party utility to run our servers
* I don't see a major way it would increase the our client's experience/ease of use
* It does not appear that the anti-cheat capabilities are being kept up to date
-
MrXtramean
- A semi-regular
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:52 pm
wow. I thought I did all the setup. So, in short, you like the hackers being on your rented servers so they become empty and then there's no point in paying money to have the server cause no one wants to play with hackers. Correct? I'd do anything and I am trying to do things to get the hackers off the pub servers. We rent one from you and there's a lot of new anti-cheats coming out. So be ready for them.
I just ask if it was do-able, not to have you do it. And this isn't do-able on your servers, why? I spend a lot of time specing players. Is it worth my time to sit and spec and ban hackers when there could a program in place to aid us? We use to have this screen shot program a long time ago. The only problem was that the screen shot was saved on the players computer. So, if the player wanted an unban he'd have to submit the screen shot. We used to do it. This program I'm asking about, gives you output setups via ftp. No problem.
Hey. Thanks for replying though.
I just ask if it was do-able, not to have you do it. And this isn't do-able on your servers, why? I spend a lot of time specing players. Is it worth my time to sit and spec and ban hackers when there could a program in place to aid us? We use to have this screen shot program a long time ago. The only problem was that the screen shot was saved on the players computer. So, if the player wanted an unban he'd have to submit the screen shot. We used to do it. This program I'm asking about, gives you output setups via ftp. No problem.
Hey. Thanks for replying though.
Edge was just telling you that since it is a 3rd party program that needs to be ran separately on the server machine itself, and not just a simple gameserver plugin, we would need to test it extensively to determine if it poses a security risk, it's effect on our systems and if it is even compatible.
Alot of the more effective anticheats of today are soley client based (esea, cevo), and I imagine they will continue to be.
With online games, you cant really avoid cheaters. They will always be there. The NuclearFallout Gaming Community (http://forums.nuclearfallout.net) manages more than 10 large public servers and we've found the best way to keep servers clean of cheaters is a strong admin presence and vigilance. It's unfortunate, but thats just how it works these days.
Alot of the more effective anticheats of today are soley client based (esea, cevo), and I imagine they will continue to be.
With online games, you cant really avoid cheaters. They will always be there. The NuclearFallout Gaming Community (http://forums.nuclearfallout.net) manages more than 10 large public servers and we've found the best way to keep servers clean of cheaters is a strong admin presence and vigilance. It's unfortunate, but thats just how it works these days.
Basically, what I'm hearing from you, MrXtramean, is that you were looking for a "yes, we'd love to set that up for you" and are not satisfied with the many valid reasons for my "we will not be running this."
I considered your request seriously and completely and would appreciate it if you responded in a professional manner as well. Your reply drips with sarcasm, but I'll fight through it a bit for the sake of clarification.
If you mean that it'd require no setup on our end, that's not true, no. The server component would require integration with our established systems, and could also introduce bugs and quirks that we'd prefer not to deal with. It also might not even run properly at all, depending on how it's written, and it would allow more control over servers than we can safely offer -- we wouldn't want clients to be using it for an FTP server, for instance. Too many new security implications crop up.
Realize that:
- Screenshots are not a new concept, and have very limited effectiveness. They only work with some types of hacks, and not if the hack has the very simple modification made to it of shutting itself off when a screenshot is taken. Maybe you remember back when PB supported CS and OGC did exactly that when it came PB screenshot-taking time.
- Client side anti-cheats must be updated constantly to continue to be effective. This one isn't. In theory, VAC is, but it isn't either.
- As bOoya pointed out, there are other client anticheats out there the ARE updated much more frequently. Better ones, that don't require a special server utility to be run around the server.
- Client side anti-cheats significantly reduce the player base of a server. Witness Cheating-Death's lack of use over the years, despite it blocking 99% of cheats for such a long time (it was especially effective before VAC, when cheat makers had to start responding to VAC's similar algorithms). Public servers that require a client-side program to play tend to stay empty.
- You still won't entirely eliminate cheaters. There are plenty of underground hacks out there that only a select number of people know about, that aren't detected by any existing anti-cheat package, and new ones are being made all the time.
I considered your request seriously and completely and would appreciate it if you responded in a professional manner as well. Your reply drips with sarcasm, but I'll fight through it a bit for the sake of clarification.
If you mean that you set me up for a "no," that's true. My first impression was to say "no" because you did not describe this product at all, even to say what part of it interested you (presumably, the anti-cheat component) -- and that meant more work for me in figuring it out. But, I did give it a fair shake.I thought I did all the setup.
If you mean that it'd require no setup on our end, that's not true, no. The server component would require integration with our established systems, and could also introduce bugs and quirks that we'd prefer not to deal with. It also might not even run properly at all, depending on how it's written, and it would allow more control over servers than we can safely offer -- we wouldn't want clients to be using it for an FTP server, for instance. Too many new security implications crop up.
There is a false dilemma here. Your implication is that we must either like your particular idea, or like cheaters; but, those are not the only options.you like the hackers being on your rented servers
I hope you don't see this idea as a panacea.I'd do anything and I am trying to do things to get the hackers off the pub servers
Realize that:
- Screenshots are not a new concept, and have very limited effectiveness. They only work with some types of hacks, and not if the hack has the very simple modification made to it of shutting itself off when a screenshot is taken. Maybe you remember back when PB supported CS and OGC did exactly that when it came PB screenshot-taking time.
- Client side anti-cheats must be updated constantly to continue to be effective. This one isn't. In theory, VAC is, but it isn't either.
- As bOoya pointed out, there are other client anticheats out there the ARE updated much more frequently. Better ones, that don't require a special server utility to be run around the server.
- Client side anti-cheats significantly reduce the player base of a server. Witness Cheating-Death's lack of use over the years, despite it blocking 99% of cheats for such a long time (it was especially effective before VAC, when cheat makers had to start responding to VAC's similar algorithms). Public servers that require a client-side program to play tend to stay empty.
- You still won't entirely eliminate cheaters. There are plenty of underground hacks out there that only a select number of people know about, that aren't detected by any existing anti-cheat package, and new ones are being made all the time.
Glad to be of assist.Thanks for replying though.
-
MrXtramean
- A semi-regular
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:52 pm
Thanks. Well, sorry for the bs. It comes from trying to decipher code and wondering why the hell they didn't just make a mod plugin or addon. I never would expect anyone to do the work. Just wanted to know if it was an easy "add-in" , but it sounds like it is not.
There is an anti-cheat coming and in beta in around 1000 servers world-wide that is a amx plugin for both CSS and 1.6. I'm looking.
At the moment we are using the Cheat-Scanner. What we need is server-side or even a client side program that won't interfere with VAC2. The program only needs to point a finger to a "potential" hacker. Cheat-Scanner will do the rest.
Thanks again...topic closed. (Boy, this would have a good tool though)
There is an anti-cheat coming and in beta in around 1000 servers world-wide that is a amx plugin for both CSS and 1.6. I'm looking.
At the moment we are using the Cheat-Scanner. What we need is server-side or even a client side program that won't interfere with VAC2. The program only needs to point a finger to a "potential" hacker. Cheat-Scanner will do the rest.
Thanks again...topic closed. (Boy, this would have a good tool though)